Mark Hayes and Mike Irwin
Mark’s Story
Whenever I talk about my life as a gay man, it’s easy to go straight to all the challenges I’ve experienced and how hard it has felt over the years. So instead of starting there, I want to start with Seven Reasons Why I Love Being Gay.
I can celebrate both my femininity and masculinity
I believe I am a more creative composer and arranger because I’m gay
I can have emotionally intimate friendships with women because I’m not a
threat to them.
Being gay caused me to ask questions, which is the first step to self-
enlightenment
Being gay caused me to question the religion of my childhood, which helped
my understanding of God to evolve.
Experiencing discrimination as a gay person has made me more empathetic
to other marginalized people.
Being gay has helped me standout, since I’m not like every one else and
that’s a good thing.
Author Brené Brown, in her book Daring Greatly, talks about living whole- heartedly. It’s the first time I heard that term. To me wholeheartedness means living life authentically, with vulnerability and courage, loving myself and knowing that I have something unique to give the world.
When asked when they knew they were gay, most of my friends didn’t have a specific point in time. Neither do I. I just knew I felt different. In early grade school I liked to play with girls and dolls. I felt weird about that and didn’t want people to know. My third grade teacher thought there was something different about me...and not in a good way..., so she told my parents. They had me see a therapist when I was ten years old for about 4-5 sessions. I don’t even know why I was seeing a therapist because the words “gay” or “homosexuality” were not part of the conversation.
I know that I was afraid of men and boys who exuded toxic masculinity. I was afraid they would harm me in some way because I was too gentle, too sweet and physically small.
Luckily I found music when I was 10 years old and I excelled at it. I began playing piano at age 13 in our Southern Baptist church and that began to shape my life journey and my personality.
I was raised in a stable, loving Christian family. In his second career, my father was a school psychologist and my mom was a registered nurse. I have 2 brothers and a sister. We went to a Southern Baptist church even though we lived in a small town north of Chicago. That was my father’s religious heritage, so that became mine.
Like many LGBTQ kids, if you felt different, you learned to achieve in life to compensate for that. All of my siblings, as well as myself, were straight A students and never embarrassed our parents in any significant way.
I dated girls but there was no emotional “spark” going on. I remember one father- son talk where my father counseled me not get a girl pregnant. No worries there!
I threw myself into all things related to church. Our family was at church every time the door was open. Although I don’t remember hearing any fist pounding sermons about the evils of homosexuality from the pulpit, the unspoken message was clear. Homosexuality was bad and sinful... an abomination. Because I excelled at so many other things, I ignored that and just tried to be the best little Christian boy I could be. Let’s hear it for sublimation and denial. But, oh how that would sneak up on me later in my life.
The choir director at our church was a Baylor grad and talked Baylor up big time. He wanted me to go there. My sights were set on Lawrence University in Appleton, WI, which was not a church affiliated school. I ended up going to Baylor as a piano performance major and it was a pivotal decision that truly affected my life path in very positive ways.
Being a “Yankee” from up north was a challenge at Baylor because I didn’t feel like I fit in. I felt very alone, as many freshmen do, especially since I lived out of state. I found a wonderfully progressive Southern Baptist church, Seventh and James Baptist, on campus right across the street from the music school. There I heard for the first time that it was OK to question your faith. That would prove to be wise counsel. In one of my darker times as a freshman, I remember holding a razor to my neck and seriously considering suicide. A book by Keith Miller which explored the idea of “not having all the answers but instead living the questions” helped me see light at the end of the tunnel.
Because the climate at Baylor was so spiritual, I was both inspired by it and also shamed by it. I could not live up to such high Christian ideals. I have vivid memories of walking across Founder’s Mall and earnestly praying to God to take away my lustful sexual thoughts toward men. I was convinced I was the only gay person at Baylor.
One of the wonderful things that happened while I was in Waco was my connection with Word Music, the foremost Christian publisher in the music industry at the time. My first choral collection and album was published and released by Word when I just 23 years old. It was called Spirit of Love and featured a 7 member vocal ensemble. I was their arranger and accompanist. That recording experience gave me the vision for my future career.
In 1977 I moved to Kansas City, MO to work for a small Christian music publisher, Tempo Music Publications. I was their music editor and I worked for them for 3 years before going free-lance as a self-employed arranger, composer and concert artist.
Moving to Kansas City was tough on my intention to be celibate because it was the “big, bad” city and no one knew me here. I thought I could get away with anything. There were many opportunities to sample the gay lifestyle. Mind you, I had not admitted to myself that I was gay yet. I could stop acting out any time I wanted to, so I thought. I’m just thankful that I didn’t fall into an addictive behavior like alcoholism or drug abuse. I guess I was too much of a rules follower.
Near the end of my time at Tempo Music, I met a nice single woman at a Christian music conference sponsored by CBN University in Virginia Beach, Virginia. We hit it off. Even though she lived in Michigan and I was in Missouri, we started dating long distance. I felt the need to propose to her and I did about 8 months later. I wasn’t in love with her, but I figured that would develop if I took this first big step. About that same time I started rooming with a friend from my Baptist church in Kansas City who was bisexual and I realized that my attraction toward men was not going away easily. I broke off my engagement with Pat, the woman I had asked to marry me. In retrospect, I’m so glad I did, but at the time it felt awful. After that very difficult conversation with her, I went home to Illinois to spend the weekend with my parents totally demoralized. Despite feeling like I was an abject failure, they were very supportive and non-judgmental. I had come out to them at age 21, but told them I knew being gay was wrong and that I would change. At the time, I think that news was easier for them to take since they had traditional biblical views about homosexuality.
As a self-employed arranger, my career really took off in the early 80s. I traveled all over the country playing concerts, playing for church music conventions and writing for several church and school publishers. My name and reputation for creative and quality music grew. I received lots of commissions from churches and schools. I was actually making a living as a free-lance arranger!
The problem was that I still had a very strong attraction to men and a sex drive to match. I was living a double life and very nervous that people in the Christian music industry would find out what I did behind closed doors. I hired therapists to help me work through that quandary, but I was really not ready to do the internal work.
In 1988 with lots of work and a bright future, I was contracted by a well-known music publisher and record label to start a new line of products. I had the amazing experience of arranging and orchestrating two hour long instrumental albums for them. In August of that year, I was called down south to their corporate office for what I thought would be a creative meeting. When I got there, I was met by the president of the company and artistic director. Their opening line was, “We’ve heard you are a homosexual. Is that true?” I was devastated. I confessed that I was and they responded in the expected manner of loving the sinner but hating the sin. I was fired on the spot. What I didn’t know is that the news that I was gay was making it around the entire Christian music industry in the board rooms and president’s offices.
Just a few weeks later I was scheduled to be the music director for the Labor Day Single’s Conference at Glorieta, the Southern Baptist conference center in New Mexico. I did go and fulfill my duties, but I was sure that everyone knew I was gay. I felt judged and shamed. I felt like my life and career were over.
One of the strong recommendations from the company that had just fired me was that I needed to find a good Christian counselor and join a reparative therapy group...which I did. I truly believed that if I didn’t change my thoughts, desires and behaviors, my career as a Christian writer would be over. How would I pay my bills?
I found a hospitable group called “Second Chance” that was affiliated with the old Exodus ministry. It was started and run by a big-hearted lady named Pat who also owned a Christian book store in the Kansas City metro. Our group met there on a weekly basis. Because Pat sold my piano books in her store, she considered me “semi-famous” and didn’t push me too hard in working the Exodus program.
I stayed with that ministry for 3 years but it did nothing to change my sexual orientation, even with the addition of counseling. It did provide a good group of friends to commiserate with, but with them, I always acted like I had it all together.
I was feeling more and more depressed. I had the good fortune to read a book called “Stranger at the Gate,” written by author Mel White. Prior to the publication of that book, Mel was a closeted gay man serving as a ghost writer for several well-known Christian pastors and TV evangelists. In his book, I found myself identifying with his story as a Christian raised in the Baptist faith and struggling with homosexuality. He began to question the traditional interpretation of the well-known “clobber” verses in the Bible. Could he be on to something? It felt too good to be true.
At the time I was attending a very progressive Southern Baptist Church in Kansas City, MO – Broadway Baptist Church. I was super active in the music ministry and played piano in the worship team every Sunday. I had come out to the pastoral team several months earlier, and they said they didn’t consider homosexuality any worse than any other sin. As long as I was seeking counsel, I was welcome there.
One Sunday evening when I was at my lowest emotional ebb, I went to a healing prayer service that our church offered. I went up for prayer, confessing my struggles with my sexuality and Karen Smith, the pastor’s wife, prayed for me. She received a prophetic word from Mother God. Yes, we were a church that used gender-inclusive language for God back in the late 80s.
My message from Mother God was this:
“My child, I have waited so long for you to come to me. There is nothing to change. I love you just as you are.”
After a lot of tears and discussion with Karen, I went back to my seat and wondered if this message was really from God. It seemed too good to be true.
For the next year, I talked with lots of straight married friends and shared the message I had received. I asked them, “Does this sound like God to you?” Everyone one of them said yes.
Hearing that word from Mother God and sitting with it for a year was one of the most healing experiences of my life. It was my “fork in the road.” I began reading all the literature I could about new ways to interpret what the Bible really had to say about homosexuality. My theology slowly began to change.
Soon after that word from Mother God, I left my ex-gay ministry group and got a therapist that didn’t have a Christian bias or agenda.
When I first accepted Jesus as my personal Savior, I was 12. Then I did it again at a youth evangelism conference when I was 16 to make sure it “took.” That was the most important spiritual decision I had made in my life up ‘til then.
Choosing to believe that God loved me just as I was, gay and all that entailed, was my second profound spiritual commitment. I was 39 years old. It had taken that long to believe I was worthy of God’s love, just as I was. I thought, “If God can’t love me just as I am, then that is not the kind of God I want to worship and serve the rest of my life.”
Although this was a deeply spiritual choice, it had practical, life-altering consequences. If I was going to be an “out” musician in the evangelical Christian music industry, how would that work?
I have lots of stories of how churches or publishers or Christian organizations found out about my sexuality and canceled concerts, no longer worked with me or threatened my livelihood. I used to love to tell those stories to my progressive Christian friends because I would get lots of sympathy. “I can’t believe they did that to you!” What I have realized is that perpetuates the victim mentality. I am not a victim of organized religion. I have thrived in spite of religious organizations and people who have a different belief system from me and are unwilling or too scared to consider “another story.”
After talking with my trusted friends during that year, I put my faith in God and said, “If I’m going to be my authentic self, I trust that you will provide all the work and abundance I need.” God has exceeded my expectations. I stayed closeted for so long because I thought I would lose everything. I actually gained everything.
I have traveled around the world as a conductor, concert pianist and clinician. I have conducted choirs and orchestras singing my music on the stage of Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center numerous times. I am conducting the premiere of a new work of mine on the stage of the recently opened David Geffen Hall in New York City May 26 next year. I’ve conducted my Requiem at a papal basilica in Rome and conducted part of the mass at St. Peter’s Cathedral in the Vatican. I’ve had the chance to arrange and orchestrate music for two Broadway style musicals, one of which won 6 awards in a New York theatrical festival. God has been so good.
After I figured out that sexuality and spirituality can co-exist and even enhance each other, I allowed myself to gingerly step into the dating pool...to actually have a boyfriend. I had 3 long distance relationships in the 1990’s. None of them worked out, but boy did I learn what I wanted and didn’t want in a relationship.
On April 3, 1998 I met Mike Irwin. We met on a blind date. We more than clicked. This spring we went on a Viking River Cruise down the Danube River to celebrate 25 years together. We’ve been legally married since 2016. One of the signs to me that I was going to be OK came the day we got married. I have 5,000 friends on my personal Facebook page, many people who live all over the world. I posted pictures of Mike and me outside the small UCC church on the island of Maui where we were married. I had 1400 responses to my post. All were congratulatory except 4, and I didn’t even know the four people who responded with criticism. It was like coming out to the whole world and receiving high fives!
Mike was married to a woman many years before we met. He has one son, who lives with his wife and two children in the Kansas City metro. So I get to be a grandfather, which is way cool. Mike and I feel very supported by their whole family. My oldest grandchild, who was born female, came out as non-binary to Mike and me on national coming out day a few years ago. She came out to us on her phone with a text, of course. They are now using plural pronouns and have chosen a new name which is more masculine than feminine. I have no idea if they are on a trans journey. They are 15 years old and an extremely bright teenager. Their parents and younger brother could not be more supportive of their journey, wherever it leads. I think it’s so cool that our oldest grandchild has two gay grandparents who love them unconditionally.
My husband, Mike, is the senior minister at Center for Spiritual Living in Kansas City. This is a second career for him and I got to support him emotionally when he left corporate America and started ministerial school. He’s an amazing minister and I’ve said to him more than once after he’s given his talk on Sunday morning that I would want to date him if we weren’t already married.
I’m very involved at CSL, as a prayer counselor, volunteer in the youth department and pianist on Sunday morning. I started a concert series. Mike and I are a power couple in our church, well-loved and respected. When I think back to my teenage years and how scared I was that people would find out I was gay, the irony is not lost on me that I now live an out and proud life at church, alongside my husband and life partner of 25 years. I could never have dreamed up that scenario.
Mike is a very wise man. Throughout our life together, I have received hate mail, threats and Bible verses thrown at me like bombs...all from well-meaning Christians. Mike has been a comforting voice, a strong ally and a great resource in how to respond or not respond to those challenges. We certainly don’t have a perfect marriage, but we have a long-lasting marriage, something I thought I would never have as a gay man.
I was raised to believe that you would be more sure of yourself spiritually the older you got. Hard to understand things would become clearer...dare I say, more black and white?
What I’ve realized is my life didn’t fit neatly into the Christian boxes and dogmas of my youth. Learning to question the Bible or what I was taught was very scary. Now I know that it’s OK to evolve spiritually. Frankly it’s damn necessary if you want to keep growing and live a whole-hearted life.
My idea of who or what God is has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. Much of that is because of the spiritual work I’ve done and the spiritual community with which I am aligned. It has changed how I write music. The old man in the sky with the long white beard who is separate from creation is a myth to me. I work hard to write lyrics that use inclusive language for humanity and the divine.
As I accept concert and composer festival invitations, I rarely go to Baptist churches anymore unless I know I would be welcomed for my authentic self. I’m receiving more invitations to speak at churches, not just perform music. I teach about original goodness instead of original sin and seeing the divine in yourself and others.
I have had a lot of success. Maybe that’s my need to prove I can be the best boy ever, maybe it’s my type A personality, maybe it’s being self-employed and always having to hustle for my next job.
Whatever has made me who I am today, I am proudly gay. I know I have unique gifts of teaching, affirmation and creativity to share with the world. My intention is to be authentic and share my successes and failures with whoever will listen. I love my life. I love myself. I used to feel like I had a charmed life. Now I realize that I have a blessed life and I am so grateful.
Read Mark’s: A Letter to My Younger Self